BusinessDay - Mbalula says civilian deaths are ‘unavoidable’

Mbalula says civilian deaths are ‘unavoidable’
WYNDHAM HARTLEY	Published: 2009/11/13 06:39:26 AM

UNREPENTANT: Deputy Police Minister Fikile Mbalula and Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa are under fire over their ‘shoot to kill’ remarks. Picture: HALDEN KROG

CAPE TOWN — An unapologetic Deputy Police Minister Fikile Mbalula has defended his and other ministers’ statements of “shoot to kill” and said it was unavoidable that bystanders would be killed in the crossfire between police and criminals.

Mbalula’s comments yesterday come after controversial shootings in which a young woman and a three- year-old child were killed by police in recent weeks.

Many commentators have linked the shootings to the increasingly intemperate urgings of politicians that police should shoot to kill.

Addressing the parliamentary press gallery, Mbalula said civilians would inevitably be killed but this would not be done deliberately. The recent number of deaths at the hands of the police could not be blamed on the repeated calls by the police ministry to shoot to kill.

Mbalula insisted the message could not be sent to police that they should retreat in the face of violent crime: “Yes, shoot the bastards!”

Mbalula also lambasted what he called “armchair critics” of the statements made by himself and Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa and renewed his attack on African National Congress (ANC) veteran Kader Asmal.

“In the recent past we have been singled out and accused of recklessness. There have been various issues that have been put within the public discourse to ridicule us about the tough stance we have taken in the fight against crime. The overwhelming victory of the ANC at the polls was a ringing endorsement of our commitment to take the war to the criminals,” Mbalula said.

Referring to Asmal’s criticism of him, he said: “There is more to Prof Asmal’s newly found dimension of popularity than meets the eye. I’m referring to an apparent vulgarised notion of eldership which seeks to stifle radical criticism and policy positions, particularly from the younger generation, and to project a fallacy of absolute wisdom which is masqueraded as intellectualism.”

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By: hilly1963	On: Nov 13 2009 3:16PM
Nothing incorrect with what they are saying, the problem is the way the politicians show no empathy, we are used to them thinking they are some form of god on earth, like the pope or somethign, but they are really going too far with their callous disregard for any citizen of the country they are supposed to be SERVING

By: donorfatigued	On: Nov 13 2009 4:29PM
Yup - civilian deaths will not be avoided, given the low-calibre people that populate the SAPS! My question however is simple - Mr. Minister, we have heard absolutely nothing about the consequences for the officer who shot the three-year old child some days ago - are we then to believe that there will be no consequences? - no investigation, no charges filed, no dismissal for this idiot? If this is the way you intend to proceed, allowing your SAPS to run wild without let or hindrance and without sanction in the event of wrongful shooting, then the streets are likely to run red with blood! In other countries, such as the US and Britain, a policeman who shoots anybody is immediately suspended and a full investigation begins to determine whether or not the shooting was a justified shooting - if it was not, prosecution follows. Mr. Minister - you know so little about responsible policing that it is dangerous!

By: Adrian_Bain	On: Nov 13 2009 7:38AM
Until it is their wife or daughter that is shot by reckless policeman these ministers will not understand. They have now given license to policeman to shoot anything that looks "dangerous". Instead of policeman analysing the situation and taking the best measures they will take the easier option and shoot and make up an explanation later. I am up for eradicating crime but what use is it if they kill more people, they are protecting, than the criminals.

By: Solomzi100	On: Nov 13 2009 7:57AM
Mbalula is problematic. He is wrong to say that deaths of bystanders are unavoidable. He should say he does not have the managerial capacity to ensure that bystanders are not killed. Then we look for someone else.

By: v3	On: Nov 13 2009 8:07AM
Sounds like what the cops said about Sharpeville. "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" "Mashini wam" "One non-crony, one bullet"

By: geanann	On: Nov 13 2009 8:16AM
As Mbalule says, nobody sheds a tear for the poor cop, they, the media are only concerned about pesky bystanders getting killed. Handling these necessary, but inconsequential killings taps energy that can be better used against the criminals out there. http://letterdash.com/g.annandale/baby-killing-cops

By: PuritanGenes	On: Nov 13 2009 8:28AM
The only way to absolutely guarantee that bystanders or innocent civilians never ever get shot by police, is for the police to never fire their weapons. This is patently obvious, it's quite surprising that this is regarded as controversial. The important thing is that where the police acted recklessly, they should be held to account, and that we should see a significant reduction in the overall number of violent deaths. It's cold comfort if in response to the criticism, the number of innocent deaths due to police action decrease, but the total number goes up.

By: PoorblackMan	On: Nov 13 2009 8:42AM

By: PoorblackMan	On: Nov 13 2009 8:42AM
Fuck!!! you Mbalula, I hope they kill you to.

By: Vivica	On: Nov 13 2009 8:44AM
Mbalula is very very pathetic man, you can even judge by his tone or rationale when presenting an issue. I even wonder whether does he think before spitting venom. In fact, let police shot his wife first by mistake and we seee his reaction.

By: richhza	On: Nov 13 2009 10:25AM
Lets hope the next kid they shoot by accident is one of Mbalula's or other ANC elite then things would change!! or would they maybe each kid will be given a bodyguard at state expense to protect them from the police.

By: ABHM	On: Nov 13 2009 10:48AM
Mr Dep Minister with all due respect and as a retired member of the SAPS maybe I have a little experience in law enforcement The problem is not with the current law but rather the abysmall training that members of the service recieve Do you know that almost 80% of them think that minimal force is law and not what it really is SAPS policy, do you know that most cannot even define proportional and reasonableness which are the ACTUAL paramters of the law as stated in sect 49 Sir I applaud your political determination but possibly t would be better spent in revamping the training so that when we send our young men and women into these dangerous situations we are sending them with the best training, best equipment, best support and not the current minimum standards, cheapest option malarky. Once you have imporved the training of the members then and only then will you notice the improvement in officer safety and increased and effective arrests. You do not need to change the law just teach the people on how to enforce it correctly!

By: ABHM	On: Nov 13 2009 10:51AM
let me also add as that same ex police member Servanus et Servimus its the police's sworn duty to protect that innocent life not disregard it as some unavoidable collateral damage, that is the defacto reason they are there! the application of force within the realms of civil law is not impossible! thats why we should carfeully select and train our police members and cherish them and make that calling a worthy career! not some second rate oh this is the only job I can get occupation! They need to start realizing that there are huge repositories of knowledge in private companies that can assist the police there are people and organizations reaching out the SAPS needs to distance themselves from their own institutional arrogance and extend towards the hands being held out to them!

By: Sean Murphy	On: Nov 13 2009 12:20PM
I thought the police were supposed to serve and protect us , the public. I thought a policeman was prepared to lay down his life to protect civilians if need be. Now I see that we civilians must be prepared to lay down our lives in the event that a policeman needs to protect himself. Since the police have shown that they cannot protect us and that policemen protecting themselves leeds to further danger to us, the public, maybe the time has come to just disband the police and then we can take our chances with just the criminals and with the police out of the way the criminals will have to think twice before they take their chances with us.

By: ABHM	On: Nov 13 2009 12:33PM
Mr Dep Minister I pay my taxes, you and every single police member works for me, we the public are not there as a hinderance we are indeed the reason you are there!

Mbalula says civilian deaths are ‘unavoidable’

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