BusinessDay - Youth leader calls for ‘debate’ over prosecuting Mbeki

Youth leader calls for ‘debate’ over prosecuting Mbeki
WILSON JOHWA	Published: 2009/11/19 06:25:32 AM

DISPUTE: Young Communist League president Buti Manamela disagrees with the ANC Youth League over the interpretation of former president Thabo Mbeki’s legacy.

THE Young Communist League (YCL) yesterday repeated its call that former president Thabo Mbeki be prosecuted for AIDS-related deaths, saying it sided with victims rather than critics of the proposed court action, including the African National Congress (ANC) Youth League.

The idea of prosecuting Mbeki for genocide was opposed on Monday by Youth League leader Julius Malema, who pledged to defend him and former health minister Manto Tshabalala-Msimang . ANC secretary- general Gwede Mantashe expressed similar sentiments yesterday, saying: “There is no issue; it has not arisen, it will not arise.”

But the issue was set to accentuate tension in the ANC’s tripartite alliance, while marking a departure from Mbeki-era denialism over HIV/AIDS. The YCL and the Youth League have traded insults in the past, but this was the first time they were disagreeing on how to interpret the Mbeki legacy.

YCL president Buti Manamela said: “If we have to stand with the people who have been infected and affected (by HIV) at the expense of a relationship with the ANC Youth League then let it be because we are for those people.

“We believe that they are the ones who felt the wrath of a political administration that was not prepared to save their lives,” said Manamela speaking ahead of a YCL conference called to discuss policy issues including the financial crisis.

However, he called for a debate, saying common ground could be found. “Let’s have a principled debate on the whole issue of whether or not to prosecute; let’s look at the figures, let’s look at the implications,” he said.

In his defence of Mbeki, Malema said the ANC should not charge its own. But Manamela rejected this, saying: “What message are we sending? Are we saying let’s open the prison gates, because the prisoners in there are one of our own if they have committed crime against some of our own?” Manamela said the debate should deal with hard facts.

Last week, Health Minister Aaron Motsoaledi released figures showing that the death rate in SA had risen between 1997 and last year , from 300000 to 756000 a year. He blamed the “shocking” statistics on the Mbeki administration.

johwaw@bdfm.co.za

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By: molapo9901	On: Nov 19 2009 1:51PM
I agree with Simmons, Mbheki said how can you give somebody who is hungry or mal-nutriated a ARV? address the hunger first!! Mr. Thabo Mbheki is still my president!!

By: Tman2010	On: Nov 19 2009 3:12PM
Who is hell Buti Malamela? And the so called Young Communist League? Are this Mamparaz same people who are professing to be communist while they are positioning themselves into top ANC position? We know your Agenda of splitting the ANC and then take over, because the ANCYL have taken the political space you are now on rampage of splitting the ANC? What you will gain by splitting our movement? Political office? And implement your archaic policies while our people remains in poverty trap? If the ANC continues in tolerating this gobbledygook it will lose its credibility, May be its losing it in WC. We know former pres Sir Thabo Mbeki, we cannot be schooled by the so called communist, they first wanted to link him(TM) to Chris Hani's assassination because they are disparate in wipe out the ANC of Luthuli, Tambo, Madiba, Mbeki and many more credible leaders, this are same failures who wanted to get rid of Prof Pityana, You won't succeed, the enemy tried and failed. We know your bosses were expecting lucrative profits out of AIDS but they failed; now they want the blood of Sir Mbeki. It will take 1000 yrs for SA to get a president close to Sir Thabo Mbeki. Today we speak of AU, NEPAD, a seat in G20, temporal seat in the UN, first ever WC in 2010 on African soil, millions of our people are having an access to basic services, Imbizo's a platform of interacting with the masses, a credible and viable democratic institutions, today Mugabe can phone Morgan this are some of things that were done under Sir Thabo Mbeki excellence leadership. As ANC we know that the struggle of eliminating poverty, underdevelopment and massive inequalities amongst our people is an ongoing struggle. We also know that we don’t have an Aids core, we will continue in emphasizing the ABC method, we won’t allow the third oppression by big business.Philani@Umlazi

By: mampholo	On: Nov 19 2009 3:50PM
with the matter of fact, it not necessary to take that action of procecuting Mr. T. Mbeki and his former cabinet in the health ministry (Dr. M. Tshabalala-Mosimang). Mr. Mbeki was the leader of ANC and leading ANC in the parliament and in the presidency for 2 consecutive period. That means he took mandate from his own party (ANC)for any action he took in his office. If they charge him with genocide, they must charge also ANC, of which is going to be impossible and not easy to.

By: simons	On: Nov 19 2009 7:57AM
If there is a person to be procecuted in this country that is the cuirrent self proclaimed president on his statement of showering after sleeping with that innocent woman. Who knows if the high rate of HIV/AIDS in this coujntgry is influenced by his statement. Mbeki was correcvt to say while trying to address the issue of HIV/AIDS we should deal with poverty because majority of africans are infected as a resujlt of poverty, he never said the pandemic does not exist. Condoms were distributed throughout the country and SAs has the responsibility to be responsible. Zuma must be charged for his showering statement becasue the most affected people is young people and his misled them. He must go to the public and apologise. People should also know that President Mbeki might be older than even their grand fathers and their statement becomes a loghing stock in this country. SA will, shall would, could never have a normal and capable leader like President Mbeki. Our country is going down the drain because of the populists called malemas and manamelas including their vavis and self proclaimed communist nzimauunde.

By: geanann	On: Nov 19 2009 8:12AM
I do not have an argument with the call but this is not an Mbeki issue it is an ANC issue...they are collectively responsible. See full argument and justification at http://letterdash.com/g.annandale/denialism-and-apartheid-birds-of-a-feather

By: I Subscriber	On: Nov 19 2009 8:17AM
First I'd like to put some context to my argument: FIRSTLY Mr. Malema is trying to pull a fast one on us with this political trickery. Malema is trying to give the impression that he supports former President Thabo Mbeki. This he does to appear as the bigger man. But he is clearly not and that’s not the real reason behind his “stance”. To say he must not be charged because he is one of us presupposes that former President Mbeki is guilty of genocide. This is not true. In fact Malema here is accusing former President Mbeki of genocide (however indirectly) but at the same time making it look like he is on his side. But this is not about sides. Consider the following: (continued on SOCONDLY)

By: I Subscriber	On: Nov 19 2009 8:18AM
SECONDLY This is not about sides… All this talk about whether or not to charge is irrelevant and only useful as a ploy fabricate a link between guilt and charges (and talk about charges), so that if he is charged or there is talk of charging him people automatically think he is guilty…. The fact is that to charge someone is not an indication of guilt and that such charges against former president Mbeki would be ridiculous and have no basis. I’m sure Mr. Malema knows this very well. And so their goal here is to form certain perceptions. (continued on THIRDLY)

By: simons	On: Nov 19 2009 8:20AM
We cannot debate the undebatable issue. If the issue on the table was "whether we should charge Zuma" then we will have interests because he misled young people and his allies in this country by his showering statement. Why do we behave like political witches who are hardly looking for the head of our one and only leader in SA and the world Ntate Mbeki? Why don't we swallow our empty pride and be proud of our leaders, afterall who should respect them if we don't? President Mbeki never said there is no HIV/AIDS but he said instead of dealing with it we should equally address the issue of poverty hence most infection are cost by poverty among our people. People should learn to underfstand ENGLISH and stop misinterpreting our leaders. You are now showing your personal hatred towards this African leader and you bit by bit becoming unpopular and we appreciate because you are the pure populist who want to create problems in order to be on TVs and radios. If there is nothing to raise from your side that should be youth development and please leave Tata Mbeki alone. Normal people of this country loves Ntate Mbeki no matter what we will continue to charish and admire him as our only and normal leader unlike a set of populist in your so called alliance. Hands off President Mbeki hands off.

By: I Subscriber	On: Nov 19 2009 8:24AM
THIRDLY Mr. Malema is in fact doing what President Zuma did after Polokwane when the ANC decided to recall him; pretend like he is supporting former president Mbeki. This is meant to create a good perception about his image (Malema). The ANC insists on attacking the former president (and his legacy) at every opportunity they get. It’s as if they want to make sure that he never returns to politics. It’s unfortunate that they would be prepared to do this injustice to a man who has done so much for the ANC and this country.

By: I Subscriber	On: Nov 19 2009 8:38AM
This is all just an insidious game by the Tripartite Alliance to tarnish the image of former president Mbeki. The Youth Leagues in question know that these allegations are baseless. They know they would never get anywhere. So they devised a ploy to try the former president in the media, to create a perception that he is responsible for HIV/AIDS related deaths. The YCL accuses and the ANCYL pretends to support the former president while effectively also accusing him. Now they want a debate, so they can keep this fresh in the minds of unsuspecting South Africans. Some of us are not going to fall this repulsive political trickery.

By: henriw	On: Nov 19 2009 8:56AM
This debate can become very interesting. The pot calling the kettle black. Take Mbeki & co. to court and gain what? Who roots for beetroot, garlic etc.? Just take a shower mon! Who prefers corruption, cronyism, enrichment, the lekker life? Enroll in government service. If you really want to turn around the Aids problem, stop the fornicating, raping and loose morals. It costs nothing and will save a lot.

By: Solomzi100	On: Nov 19 2009 9:35AM
Charge the monkey

By: molusit	On: Nov 19 2009 9:56AM
By Thapelo Molusi, I am appalled by the IQ and the incompetent thinking abilities of Buti Manamela as a leader of the Young Communist League. How could he say that former president, Thabo Mbeki and other involved cabinet members should be prosecuted or there should a debate about what her says. Does he know in so saying he is implying that the entire ANC, and all its alliances including himself is liable for the implemenation of ANC policies. Comrade Malema was spot on when he said this means that the charges against our current president, Msholozi should be reinstated. South Africa has got better issues to address viz: economic growth, job creation, ESKOM, SAA, TRANSNET, SABC, ARMSCOR, SERVICE DELIVERY,etc. This country does have the luxury of wasting resources of entertaining worthless issues like what Manamela is proposing. If he has brilliant ideas about how to fight crime, create jobs, addressing service delivery, improving education, energy generation solutions, then we welcome that valuable input. We need to move forward and stop blaiming the past as a deterrent to advance and develop as a nation.

By: simons	On: Nov 19 2009 10:43AM
Some headless self proclaimed politician like Buti Mananyela and Julius Malenya must not think they are too clever in this country, infact they are the pottential progrfessive moron and laughing stock in the coujntry. They are indirectly competing as to which one could make a good leader of the youth in the country and the worst part of it is non of the above. Young people of this are suffering they doknt have skills, education and employment but instead of making noise about that you attack some individuals. Our people must start tgo realise that you arfe good in insulting and making others suffer. President Mbeki is very quite about your nonsensical statement do you think he is a fool, try to equade him to your populist Mshini wam you will notice that Mbeki is a leader even after your personal vilificatgion. Tell your Zuma to help youth of this country if he has that capacity and stop disresplecting our elders and leaders for that matter. The two of you are all rich at the expense of the poor in this country and you dont even differentiate between and elders and those of your ages. The two of you need a serious mental panel beating if not scrapyard because you arfe mentally rotten. I even question the mental capacity of those who regard you as their leaders, is this not a situation of the blind showing the blind the way?

By: Ntinti	On: Nov 19 2009 11:14AM
Ha Ha Ha- Maybe they should do that if they want Mbeki to resurface and play a victim syndrome role like Zuma did after being fired and watch he will get popularity again, just watch- You dont what you are inviting. Stop being power hungry, if you want to upsurge the ANC as alternative party, register as a political party but dont come with cheap politicking here. We have had enough look where we are as a result of that in Polokwane, left with the quality of yourself and Malema, Blade etc. Mnay people are anxiously waiting for that and want to openly support him and bring him back just to spite you- I thought the snake was dead and there was no need to hit it ( Zuma) The snake and dogs will come back to bury you watch the space. i thought you are clever now I can see you are actually competing with Malema, the only difference is quality because Malema seems to have it better this time than you because he is on the ground and know Mbeki's standing and bitterness about his recall is still deeply rooted even amongst those in power. First the statisctics are wrong and whether he said what he said its his call, the policy of the ANC was clear, recalling Joel Netshitenzhe's rebuke of the cabinet and reminding them of ANC policy on the issue and won the debate beacuse he was the custodian of it and defended it and Mbeki accepted. Besides that he provided the biggest budget for HIV/AIDS and the implementation like in Free State was an issue. Local givt capacity and provincial level should also held accountable and most of them had to do budget allocation, like Motsoaledi were and are still there. I am now educating you how this things work I can see your 8 months stay at Parliament has not taught you anything may you are busy with politics than serving the people including looking improving HIV/AIDS or maybe you can see that the policy has no problem and think Mbeki's was suppose to implemnt which is misplaced. Manto was top 20 in the NEC list, aks yourself whyn is it because she comes from KZN or people just love her for not bowing to exorbitant amount charged on medicine including ARV by drug manufactures. Under Manto we had a practical aproach with serious problems I agree but all poor people in particulr benefitted on her firm stance to have cheap medicine- maybe you are also paid in black plastic bags under the table like your leader by drug companies- You now seem to speak for them not us. The stigma of coming out even today is still there, the shower message, the polygamist maybe you need to do your research- Do you condomise, since you are part of the new found fame group, how many girlfriends do you have, how can that be somebody's problem at your level if you contract HIV and hide it and only come to the centre when you are sick. Does government/s have money waiting for those issues- dont be stupid hey' If I recall last year after Mbeki gone by the way it was established that more people at the middle class level got infected, assumption was that maybe due to their newly found level of status in the communities and BEE, AA and multiple partners because of the means they have etc. I have my family in the township, I can tell you, Buti your likes, ANCYL, Politicians, BEE, AA are spreading this virus like hell when you come in and cruse with your newly acquired cars and status and antice poor girls who think that you will take them out of poverty, You know and ask Zola seven and yourself and your comrades. Maybe you know something we dont and you are trying to cleanse you soul. Walk the talk- Condomise, Stop multiple affairs before blaming Mbeki dont push your luck you will burn.

By: Goerge	On: Nov 19 2009 11:27AM
This is more a politician game Opposite parties are trying to undermine our organization and government,wanting to be in charge but that will never happen EVER!!!! ,i am with Malema,why should we sent our leaders to Jail for an mistake,that anyone can do ie its simple lets make use of an rubber to wipe out all our mistakes that's what is used for to clear all mistake done by humans

By: The Ethical Induna	On: Nov 19 2009 11:42AM
Malema doesn't want Mbeki in court because Zuma continues to use the national intelligence Agency to get even with internal party membership - like Mbeki did. And Malema doesn't want dirty washing aired as people like him will end up in the court on various other charges - particularly how badly the ANCYL audit went. We're coming to get Malema and the rest and they're going to the World Court for racism, oppression, and ethnic bias.

By: The Ethical Induna	On: Nov 19 2009 12:02PM
Yes, Malema is a bit like Mzilikazi. He believes if the Sangoma says he's guilty then the ntagati will find him and nip his little digit off. So Jules still lives in some kind of weird world where to be named is to be shamed. Not exactly a clear understanding of Justice, then. But - are we surprised? All ruling party minions have a propensity to try and dumb us all down in their own image ..

By: The Ethical Induna	On: Nov 19 2009 12:04PM
Great comments, though, and what's really good about all these debating is that most appear to be avoiding really cheap shots. Hey, Ntini?

Youth leader calls for ‘debate’ over prosecuting Mbeki

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